Item that my wife's TV listening caused

[brickrow]

Hi.
My wife recanted a news story she heard last night about fad--especially low carb--diets and how they come and go and how they each pose health risks.
So, being old and, suppposedly wiser, and, after all the pro-diet research I had done before, did some reading on the 'con' side.

I found a very interesting article and have put it up on a personal web page site so we all could look at it and maybe discuss it. Yes, I obviously know anyone can write and post anything on the web, but it seems to have a fairly solid base of other what I refer to as 'con' discussion points.

Well, anyway, I hope no one is offended, but I am too old to learn the hard way and appreciate this group, even though I have only 'known' you a few days!.

Here is where I (copied and pasted) posted it:
www.rotue9w.com/ask.htm

It originally came from:
www.dietitian.com/faddiet.html

Again, good things can stand discussion.
I am off to make some of my newly baked no/low carb bread for my two eggs for the first time in a very long time!
Joe

[stephie]

Well, I have read and seen it all on this plan, and all I can say is there are too many things that point to it being healthy. Yes, you have to take suppliments while on it, but I have read studies that prove that the calcium loss only occurs for the first three weeks and then stops.
As far as kidneys are concerned, as far as I have researched, and others more knowledgable than me have researched, there is not any study that proves that healthy kidneys are damaged by a low carb diet. Yes, if you have unhealthy kidneys it could be a problem. Here is a quote from The Ketogenic Diet by Lyle McDonald "Overall there is little data to suggest any negitive effect of ketogenic diets on kidney function or the incidence of kidney stones " furthor down "With regards to the protien issue, it should be noted that kidney problems resulting from a high protien intake have only been noted in individuals with preexcisting kidney problems and little human data excists to suggest that a high protien intake will cause kidney damage."
Let me furthor say that in my two years in the low carb world online, I have come to know many folks who have eaten low carb for years and have never had any problems, in fact they not only got thinner, but healthier.
I am not a doctor, but think about the fact that Dr Atkins was a cardiac doctor and most of the low carb diets out there are supported by a doctor or doctors. My doctor told me it was not dangerous and he is a very careful type of doctor. He supports it completely.
All I can tell you is there is going to be a lot of people for and against any kind of diet you may be on. I firmly believe that the insulin released in your body from carbs when eaten with all the fat and protien are what causes the problem. YOu take away the carbs and you do not have the insulin. Also, you do not stay in ketosis the rest of your life, you gradually to off of it for maint. So this is only the losing part of the way of eating. Every thing I have read suggests that our bodies actully perform very well on ketones. All I can say, is when you eat enough calories and watch the carbs and get your suppliments, this woe gives you so much energy. No low fat diet ever gave me energy. I am doing things now, I could not have done the beginning of June. I am stronger and healthier and have only done minimal and sporatic excercise up to now,and I have only lost 11 pounds so it is not from that. "
Ultimately, you have to decide what you feel is the truth. There are so many books out there, get a few and see what you think. But do not let one or two negitive reports scare you. There really is much more to support it being a healthy way to eat. I figure, the Atkins diet has been around almost thirty years, if tons of folks had gotten sick in that amount of time, his diet would have been gone years ago, and yet more and more people are starting to promote this way of eating. If we were eating like our ancient ancestors did, we would be eating meats and veggies and fruits and nuts and seeds. No sugar or white flour or white rice or all the other processed junk our culture calls food.
If this causes you serious concerns, check out south beach diet as it allows you some whole grains.
The bottom line is, you have to be happy and comfortable with how you are eating. I hope I helped a little. Stephie

[brickrow]

Stephie
Please don't take what I read as my belief, it is, as I said, another side to think about. So far, all i have read says the same as what you say. However, in life, it cannot be all one sided and if it is the way it is, then it can stand the discussion.
I am not quitting until either I do not feel well or I have reached where I want to be and, at that time, I will try to put together a life plan on how and what to eat. Both Low Fat and Low Carb seem to have things to offer and maybe the two can help my life.

There are a lot of "fad" diets out there and they all have detractors....God had them too.

I guess I want to know as much as I can.

The one part of the article I posted that is intriguing is the part that mentions about the 'pickiness' of the nourishment the brain requires/needs.....

Anyway, Thanks for posting.
Joe

[cheeseaholic]

There will always be opposing sides to health & nutrition. No ONE person can dictate what is best for each and every individual. Every one is different, and will have a different opinion.
There are ALWAYS two sides to an argument... and there are never any victors. it`s just a matter of what suits each individual.
A LOT has to do with the food industry..... the dairy board will always push that without milk, our bones will dry up & crumble.......... then you have the people that argue that milk is only for the first few months of our lives, then I bodies can`t digest it. (You dont see COWS living on milk.... they eat grass) etc.......
There will always be horror stories on whatever we consume...... we read the concerns, and make up our own minds. We have check-ups with Doctors, and if everything is looking better than it has is years, we are on the right track.
People with existing ailments have to tailor a diet to work around the problems they have caused from eating incorrectly in the past....... while others can forge ahead on their chosen path and succeed.
Low carbing is Not for everyone, and no-one has said it is.......... they are just saying that Low Fat doesnt work for everyone either. It`s all about individual choice, research, and finding what best suits you as an individual.......... what will help you succeed... feel better and live longer. ;D

We have all, through the years and diets, read about the "Milk Theory", how eating steak causes cancer, how our body cannot digest high grain foods, how vegetables loose all nutrition once heated or frozen...., how fruits are the only foods we should be eating in the morning due to our bodies assimulating, how eggs raise cholesterol and should be avoided at all costs, without carbs our bodies has no fuel, without protein , we loose muscle mass........ and the list goes on an on. We all learn how our body reacts to the foods we eat.
I personally find excess carbs leave me craving even MORE carbs, and that process makes me overweight. I find low fat leaves me hungry all the time, creating food cravings, causing me to over-eat , adding to my weight problems. I find that a high carb diet leaves me to take a nose dive in energy by the afternoon, leaving me tired.
I found that low carbing corrects these reactions to foods. I find that low carbing helps me loose excess weigh without being hungry and creating cravings, causing me to over eat.

If you keep researching, even the better know "Low Fat" diets are now suggesting that "Sugar" is a problem, and are suggesting No carbs after a certain time of the day. Strange that when the Low Fat product manufactuers replace the FAT in their products, they load them with excess SUGARS.......

Who do you trust?
Who knows best?
Only your OWN findings will give you that answer.

[brickrow]

Nice note back.

I will continue with both eating less carbs and doing research.

The "If glucose is not available for fuel by your limiting dietary carbohydrates, your body learns to run on ketones, but your brain doesn't." really says a lot.

I wish for a big bowl of popcorn. This is my only vice and that was able to continue in enormous amounts while on the no fat thing. However, I see what it was doing now.

Later.
Joe

[stephie]

I am so sorry if I came accross defensive, if I did, it was not aimed at you. Like Dawn said, so many people drive us nuts with thier insider information on why you should not eat one way, but should eat another way and I am just so tired of it.
I agree that no two people should use the same exact plan. It is a lifetime change and should be personal.I know I have in the past, in my early low carb days, used some of these things I heard as an excuse to go off the plan, and then weeks later, heavier still and feeling terrible, I came back to low carb again.
I personally think some natural whole grains in maint are not a bad thing. I hope to be able to eat some brown rice and whole wheat flour and beans and lentals and such,in strict moderation, but sugar is something I cannot tolerate at all. I do believe that sugar itself is the biggest villian in most cases. It does cause a physical reaction and it is addictive.Now that I do not eat it anymore, if I do, the next two days until it is out of my system, I am a mess, emotional and weepy and depressed,no energy the third day, I am great again, full of energy and upbeat, it is that drastic for me. The way I look at it, if having withdrawel symptoms means it is addictive, than sugar is. The really great thing is, with all the low carb products out there, I can have my favorate desserts occasionally and stay away from the sugar. That is so awesome.
I do appologize, you have to remember I have been a moderator on another board and this one, and have heard it all. I have seen so many people fall off and give up because of information that they have been told about the way they eat.Usually told to them by someone who really does care and reacts to something they heard that was bad, you can't fault them for that. I just care a lot, and get frustrated by it all.
As for the brain thing, I will go read the article more carefully, but what I have read in more than one place is that ketones is what the brain does best on, and in my case at least, this is true. I seem to have a much better memory now, than I did when eating regular carby food. I do know that when I stay true to my plan, I have amazing energy and feel great.
Have you ever checked out the Carbohydrate Addict diet ?? I do not use the plan, but when we decide to have something we should not, and it is rarely a dessert,it is usually something like pizza or bread , we follow their reward meal rules and eat in within an hour and do not eat anything after. I have eaten pizza and followed that rule exactly, and gotten up weighing less the next day. If you are not familar with the concept, they say if you eat one regular meal a day, after eating two low carb ones, if you keep it within an hour, you will trick your body into not releasing the insulin and will lose the weight. We do not do this often, maybe a couple of times a month, and sometimes that is a great way to relieve the pressure of not eating something you miss terribly. It was written by two doctors who lost weight on it, and have maintained that loss for over ten years eating this way.
Anyway, I would never want to come accross like it is my way or the highway, my entire point was just check it out for yourself and make sure. Ultimately, as I have said before, you have to be happy with what you are doing, it is your body and your life and you can't do anything for a long time that is not comfortable to you.
Stephie

[stephie]

I went back and read the article and had not realized it was so long and read all about the low carb questions.
this dietician makes some statements that I question. first of all, they say to a person who commented that sugar gave them anxiety type symptoms, that "high or low blood sugars do not cause anxiety attacks, the cravings and obsessing you describe are indicitive of binge eating." Well, I disagree. If you call one nice size piece of cheese cake binging, than maybe. But that is all it took for me to be a weepy mess for two days following this cheat. You can ask my husband , it was that bad, and I really only ate the one piece of cheesecake, maybe a bit smaller than the size of a restaraunt piece. Nice sized but no binge. It was an awful experience, so bad, I have no desire to eat anything with sugar in it at all. I never thought of it being an anxiety type attack, but it was very scary. In two days when the sugar was out of my body again I have been just fine ever since.
They also go on in another section to say that the Atkins diet is a semi starvation diet of 600 calories. I would really like to know where that information came from. My hubby and I eat more than twice that amount of calories and lose a couple pounds a week.
Also they claim it makes you eat your muscle, and I know that is not true. The protien you eat helps to build muscle. They say it is all water weight that you lose on low carb. well, I know a few people who have lost a hundred pounds or more on it, and i guarantee it was not all water.
This was written by a dietician not a doctor and has thier facts all wrong.
It just seems to me, and it is what convinced my hubby and I to eat this way for good, that more and more doctors and experts adn finding that eliminating the bad carbs from your diet makes you healthier and helps you lose weight, and some belive just eating the foods lower on the glycemic index works, and I see nothing wrong with that, I just find I personally do better on stict low carb, but thats me.
I do appreciate you sharing this article , people need to be aware of what so called experts are saying. I will believe doctors and researchers before a dietician. I do not get defensive easily,and I really hope I have not offended you, I would never want to, but how many people who could have been helped by low carb, did not even try it because they read that persons " expert " advice.
I will shut up now !!! ;D
Stephie

[cheeseaholic]

As you can see Joe, Stephie is Very Passionate about her carbs ;D......... and the way the effect Her both physically and emotionally.......... and after following this way of life for over 2 years, giving and receiveing support & encouragement of others, She has seen and heard it all.

It`s just so frustrating when people put out a one sided report blasting your way of life, without any evidence to support their claims. Millions of Low carb successfuls can`t ALL be wrong!

It is interesting to see what the lastest news is, and where "Low Carbing" is standing amoung the peers at the moment.......... and I say "At the moment", as one day they are for it, and the next day they are against it.... just like everything else in life.

Keep posting anything you find on the subject, as we dont all have access to the same reports. (From different parts of the world). We all like to keep up with the latest goss.. ;D

[stephie]

Thanks Dawn, you put that so much better than I did, I really did not mean any offense and hope no one took any. I am very happy to read either side and just got a bit defensive. I do really do not want to make anyone think they cannot share what they find, again, thanks for wording it so well. Stephie

[cheeseaholic]

Oh ...and Joe, have you tried Pork Rinds/Crackles, instead of Popcorn?

The ones we have here in OZ are "ZERO Carb".

I think in the US they might also come in different flavours.
Might be worth a try...

[stephie]

Joe, I can relate to the popcorn thing, I miss it so much too. I used to eat it most nights. It is so hard to give up favorate foods isn't it. Stephie

[cheeseaholic]

I agree Stephie...........

It`s finding the "Replacements" for favs that we now work on.


PS:- I personally never Did care for popcorn............ can`t stand the smell of it at the movies either... LOL.

[stephie]

Wow, you don't like pop corn, that is amazing, I have never met anyone who did not. You are actually lucky as it helps this woe to not miss out on many favorates.
I try not to snack much at all, but if I just have to have something I try to eat a hard boiled egg or a couple slices of American cheese or some pork rinds, but I prefer them with tuna or chicken salad to dip them in.
I have noticed that once I got used to not snacking after dinner, I just did not think about it any more. Sometimes brushing my teeth when I feel like eating helps a lot, nothing tastes very good with a tooth paste taste in my mouth !!!
We have been buying the low carb ice cream bars, as the portions are pre set and we are not tempted to eat more. Regualr low carb ice cream you can fill the bowl as full as you want, and that is bad, especially with those sugar alchohols, they really mess us up if we eat too much of them.
You are so right, we just have to think differant, and that is not really all that hard !!! Stephie ;D

[Avariel]

What a fascinating discussion! I see I missed a lot of action yesterday!

I think all the criticism bears discussion and it will be very helpful for new browsers/members to have it here to read.

Stephie and Dawn - I think you made very good sense.

Joe - the carbohydrate addicts diet really might be worth a look if you miss popcorn! You can eat a whole bowlfull! It worked very well for me for a couple of years, until I messed my metabolism up with diet pills. I never lost as fast as I do with Atkins, but still lost about 2lb a week.

I always suspect the lowfat food industry of sabotage! The rumour that Dr A. died of a heart attack had to have come from SOMEWHERE! These industries have lost soooo much money with the increased popularity of low carb, they must be really scared!

A couple of years ago - it seems the whole of the UK thought Atkins was a dangerous diet, faddy at best. And now, we are getting the bars and suppliments in our healthfood shops and main chemist chain. So I guess the lowfat industry is losing shelf space as well as followers!

We have had a big ad campaign on eating potatoes in recent months. I have never seen one of those before and I guess that's a sign of the shift in shoppers' attitude too.

The one thing I find hardest to ignore is that the whole country has been geared to lowfat for so long - the Dr.s prescribed nothing but lowfat/high fibre, the government said you should eat lowfat/high fibre - and yet the population has more of an overweight problem every year. So obviously something's not working!

I am convinced that a minority of people do very well on lowfat and it suits their metabolism nicely. But I think that maybe 2 generations of eating the wrong things have made most of us sugar intolerant. I felt kinda poisoned when I did Weight Watchers. There were so many artificial additives etc in the WW products (and the portions were minute!)

[stephie]

Wow, you made some great points there. I agree that maybe low carb addict or even South Beach are great alternatives when people are not comfortable with strict low carb. Many people have lost well with both those plans.THey are very healthy too.
I have felt sugar was a dangerous thing for years, and even before eating low carb I tried to keep it out of our house as much as possible, our kids rarely , very rarely, got kool aid, they drank water, and I made most of thier treats growing up and tried to use honey and other sweetners and but over the years I gave in to the sugar as they got older and the weight just piled on me at that point.
I just feel for many people, the refined carbs are a serious problem and do indeed cause terrible emotional up and downs.
I think it is wonderful that now low carb, and there fore low sugar althernatives are now available to us because of the new acceptance of low carb.
I just feel people who bash an eating plan, need to have thier facts straight as they can really hurt people with misinformation. I was very defensive I suppose but it is just because I care.
Stephie